a possible anti-grief measure

This is really just a grief mitigation idea, not truly "anti-grief". Please don't take this overly serious, as I am not doing so, whether this is amusing or interesting I would consider it a success.

I think a disproportionate number of griefers seem to primarily build swastikas when choosing among offensive symbols to build. I used to think this was odd, that without the rule to suggest it to them, to provide such a specific ban worthy project, that they wouldn't otherwise do it. But if swastikas were not specifically suggested, I imagine they would still do something, as I guess the only point of any of their actions it to do something ban worthy and see how long it takes to get banned, whatever that happens to be.

There is a point to this. I think that if there were to be established a rule against building some large, difficult object,(that no one would possibly build aside from it being suggested to them by the rule) then they may waste their time on this more impressive act of defiance, rather than cause more actual trouble by making their grief hard to notice. It would also confine their actions to one small area, rather than as much of the map as they can get to. I'm not seriously suggesting this, and if any of these points are wrong the whole idea would collapse.

Since this is suggesting the creation of a rule for the sole purpose of goading flamboyant greifers into breaking it, so as to make them easier to notice, I realize the absurdity, if not hypocrisy, and don't expect it to be agreed with. But I did think it was worth a general chat post, which is why it is here and not in section for real suggestions. If you know why this wouldn't work I would appreciate your criticism.

That would put more pressure on staff. Right now grief is the least of our worries. Stuff such as easy promoting, bad staff, and bad builds seem to be the biggest issue with the server at the moment. Grief at one time may have been a problem, but with our commands we can easily filter out griefers from guests and punish them accordingly. It would be more of a hassle and it would be very difficult to enforce.

it is an interesting idea, but I feel like it might need a bit of work - it's a bit too obvious atm. However, with the recent decline in staff, Drama is right: grief is not the most pressing problem of the server right now. However, I think that we could consider this at a later time. Thank you for the suggestion!

Thank you for responding, but you both misinterpret me. I wrote this knowing that it was only "an interesting idea", and that it wouldn't be put into practice. I didn't think my idea would make sense except as a suggestion, and I apologize if putting it in this way made it seem different than what it actually was, an idea, and nothing more than an idea. I did write that it was not a real suggestion at the bottom. But writing it as a suggestion anyway was a confusing way of doing it that I should have thought out more.

I was drawn to the problem of grief primarily because of how close it seemed to elimination, that it was "the least of our worries" not because I thought it was the greatest importance. I am curious what can be done about these other things.

Coppermazov wrote:Thank you for responding, but you both misinterpret me. I wrote this knowing that it was only "an interesting idea", and that it wouldn't be put into practice. I didn't think my idea would make sense except as a suggestion, and I apologize if putting it in this way made it seem different than what it actually was, an idea, and nothing more than an idea. I did write that it was not a real suggestion at the bottom. But writing it as a suggestion anyway was a confusing way of doing it that I should have thought out more.

I was drawn to the problem of grief primarily because of how close it seemed to elimination, that it was "the least of our worries" not because I thought it was the greatest importance. I am curious what can be done about these other things.

I am confused by your response, but I think I understand what you are attempting to portray. The beginning of your last paragraph states that grief is "close" to elimination, but I assume you are referring to the idea of grief, and not grief itself. If that is true, I believe that the way grief is dealt with is fairly straight forward. The server offers simple ways to ban players who grief, along with any actions they performed while on the server.

Now to address your last sentence. What "other things" are you referring to?

My honest opinion on the issue is that grief is always going to exist as a nuisance, but can easily be dealt with. In fact, grief is a part of Minecraft that is not actually bad. It humanizes something that is very systematic without defiance. It makes the experience more realistic and provides depth. I am not condoning such behavior, but I will say that it is not a major problem thanks to McForge.

Exactly. The concept of removing grief and upkeep of the server are parts of a moderators job, without 'grief' there is not much left to do in the perspective of a staff member.
Thank you for showing interest in such an area, Copper, but the next best solution for the server would be along the lines of incorporating more staff.

The other things weren't in my comment. The "biggest issue's" of "promoting, bad staff, and bad builds" were in Dramaslims' comment. I had hoped he would explain what could be done about these, and the nature of these. I think they sound more pressing than what I have written, and hope that someone else will respond regarding them, if not him.

I do mean the idea of grief, thank you for recognizing that. I also believe that what you're both saying is that the structure of the server requires the idea of grief, so that even if it were possible to eliminate it entirely, it would be necessary not to. While also being necessary to balance that with rigorously opposing them individually, as opposing them is also part of the structure. If that's what you meant, it seems to work, even though it sounds odd. Lots of things that work sound odd.

I wrote this as a suggestion because it wouldn't make any sense except in the form of a suggestion, although it isn't really a suggestion at all. I was happier to see it discussed than if it was implemented. I had noticed that grief was almost exclusive to one map, and even then only to certain circumstances within that map. Very limited to begin with. I thought there might be a way to limit it further, by one way or another, assuming that would be good. My idea for a rule was just a result of that, and was secondary to the above point. If limiting grief further would damage the order of things then my idea was counterproductive from the start, so I'll drop the subject. I am not being ironic or trying to mock this, and I'm sorry if that's what it seems like.

I see what you are getting at. Now the bigger issues I was reffering to are being dealt with as we speak. Lately we have had a large amount of guest's being easily promoted to designer within a couple of days. This is a result of the staff not having any real standards or guidelines. Silus is working on a handbook so staff will have a better idea of what their standards should be for things such as promotions, bans, etc.

These easy promotions cannot be pinned on one person. It is a community problem that is being dealt with by the community. A lot of members have contributed ideas and a lot have been considered. Chef, Silus, Doddy, Noodles, and myself are going to discuss all of the major server issues over opirc. If all goes well we will have a solution to these problems. Hopefully that cleared up the "Bigger Issues" for you.

Now regarding your suggestion, if I understand correctly, it's merely a suggestion and nothing else. Being a server that allows guest's to join and build in certain maps, grief is inevitable. This is why we limit guest's who we know nothing about to a small amount of permissions and building space. This allows us to contain small issues, such as grief, so they do not grow into a larger issue. Eliminating that would give the server no purpose. The point of the server is to filter out bad players and bring in the good ones to form a safe stable community. I see it as more of a test.

I'm glad to know that, especially about the handbook.